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Come on in and sit back relax, you’re listening to Episode 164 of the WealthTech Today podcast. I’m your host, Craig Iskowitz, founder of Ezra Group Consulting and this podcast features interviews, news and analysis on the trends and best practices all around Wealth Management Technology. Before we get into the interview, if you are listening now you’re an executive at a broker dealer, an asset manager or an enterprise RIA you should run not walk to a website, EzraGroupllc.com and fill out the Contact Us form on the homepage to meet with us about your technology platform issues. Our experienced team can assist with software vendor evaluations systems integrations, improving operational efficiency, software implementations and a whole lot more. You can take advantage of our free initial consultation offer by going to EzraGroupllc.com.
Topics Mentioned
- Why He Moved to LPL
- Balancing the Needs of Independent Advisors and Enterprise Business
- Will LPL Develop a Merrill Edge Product?
- When Does LPL Build vs Buy?
- The Dogma of Advisors
- Future Tech Acquisitions
- ClientWorks Product Roadmap
- Artificial Intelligence at LPL
Episode Transcript
Craig: I am excited to introduce our next guest. It is Kabir Sethi, Chief Product Officer, LPL Financial. Kabir, thanks so much for being here.
Kabir: You’re welcome. Thank you for having me, Craig.
Craig: It’s a pleasure. I was difficult getting on your schedule. I know you’re super busy. Tell me, how has it been the first six months at LPL?
Kabir: It’s been fun and exciting, probably the best way I can describe it. I mean, it’s an exciting company, as you know, with LPL. I mean, there’s a lot going on, right? And different types of models we’re thinking about, products, certainly on the platform space and different client segments. So it’s almost a question of harnessing where we want to focus and what we want to do. But for me, coming in new, there’s just a ton of stuff to come up to speed on. It’s been fun and you’re right. It will be six months. exactly on the second of November.
Craig: Time flies, right?
Kabir: It’s incredible.
Why He Moved to LPL
Craig: There is so much going on, of course, at a company, the size of LPL. There’s always going to be a lot going on, especially the wide variety of services, products you offer internally. But backing up a second from that, can you share some of the reasons why you move? So you had a great career at Merrill, of course, I mean, shoot before that. What was the biggest reason why you jumped to LPL?
Kabir: Merrill was a lot of fun and in fact, I kind of grew up there because and when you are out of form for 18 years in all kinds of different roles, it’s a big deal, right? You don’t just take these decisions lightly. There are a few things and continue to be those few things about LPL that I liked. But one, the role is exciting. It kind of ties into what I’m sure we’ll talk about in a bit, which is it’s the Chief Product Officer role, the way LPL structures the products. So think about wealth management, banking, lending products, then the platforms, which span the advisor and investor experience, research, and then data and analytics. And, even at Merrill and working in this space for a while, it had become fairly clear to me that these areas are increasingly intertwined. And if you do it right and you execute well and you focus on the right things, there continues to be tremendous potential in the space around how you use data and how you use technology to enable the experiences and how you weave in products in that experience. And so, one, the role itself was structured in a way that I liked. Two, I liked the people. It’s a great culture in LPL. It’s sort of that mix of a place which is growing fast, a lot of ambitious things, people who want to do good things. But then also good people. I mean, it’s very collaborative. I think it has the right level of teamwork that you want and that actually makes doing a lot of challenging things fun. So that’s an exciting piece of LPL. And then I think the other piece also is related to the first point, which is when you think of the platform and you think of LPL and its role in the industry. To me, it felt like an opportunity where what we do on this platform could well have a real impact on the future of wealth management. And so to me, that’s incredibly exciting. I think it would be exciting to most people. And so all those things came together in a good way. Six months in, I mean, they all hold true, as I said. So it’s been fun. And that sort of guided my decision finally.
Craig: That’s so important, the word fun, right? And everyone wants to work and we all work hard. But if you can also have fun, it’s almost like it’s not work.
Kabir: Exactly. Yeah, then you’re not worried about things like ours and travel and tragedy and stuff like that.
Craig: And I know, I remember what you just mentioned about the ability to impact the future of wealth management. That used to be what I heard from people who moved to Microsoft, 15, 20 years ago when they were sort of driving the direction of the industry. And you can move in that role and it could affect hundreds of millions of people. So it’s the same LPL got such a large footprint across the industry that you got the same ability.
Kabir: No question. And you think of 21,000 advisors and growing and it’s rapidly become a mix of a number of different types of clients, right? As you know, the legacy and the heart of the firm continues to be independent advisors. We continue to help grow and at the other end, there’s this rapidly growing enterprise business. And what we’re ending up doing is being present in this industry in a number of different ways. And it starts to get to all those things, even in areas that I look at, which is, OK, so what’s your platform strategy? What do you want to do next? And what are we solving for? And quite often, it’s actually different things we’re solving for, depending on the different client segment. So yeah, I think we’re going to see a lot in this industry in terms of how technology underpins a lot of the changes and how we are able to use data in ways that even some years ago would have been difficult to imagine. And when you’re doing it at scale on a platform like this, you just start to multiply the possibilities.
Balancing the Needs of Independent Advisors and Enterprise Business
Craig: So you brought up a couple of good points there. You’re talking about the legacy business of independent advisors, which is still growing. And the enterprise business, which is also growing. How do you balance those two of the very different needs and very different strategies?
Kabir: How do you keep that balance? Yeah, it’s a great question. And it’s quickly become clear to me that there’s sort of some different needs, I would say, and then a fair amount of commonality because at the end of the day, a lot of what you’re trying to do is make advisors successful, right? And I think the reason LPL is even growing so fast in the enterprise business is that at some level, the same principles hold, right? You’re trying to understand the experience advisors have, you’re trying to help them improve that, you’re trying to look at all those points of friction, you’re trying to make the experience a lot more personalized in some sense because that’s what they need. And so institutions, as you can imagine, they have more structure, but talking about a large number of advisors and they’re looking to manage those businesses in a certain way in a more uniform, consistent way. But I actually think there’s a lot of crossover between the segments in terms of what we’ve learned just over the years in terms of enabling advisor success, and then how you apply it to newer segments you’re working with. In some sense, that’s one of the most attractive things about LPL to our clients, which is we’ve done this a lot, and it’s in our DNA.
Kabir: And when your singular focus is in fact, how do we make our advisors successful and how they can serve any clients? You start to go back to a lot of similar principles, as I was mentioning, you’ll we continue to look hard at the experience at basic things and advisors practices around workflows and all those points of friction. So those kinds of things actually are going to they’re going to cut across segments. I would say the one difference that we’re working on, which I think will benefit us overall as a platform, is this idea that especially large institutions, they want to be served in the way that they want to be served. These are companies. These are big institutions. And so there is this point around personalization in this industry, which people talk a lot about. We’re starting to see it come to life because when you serve a certain bank or a certain credit union and you’re serving them in the way that they want to be served, it becomes a very personalized experience in terms of how you’re configuring the platform for them, even things like branding, even things like workflows. And where it’s starting to help us a lot is starting to embed this concept of personalization just across our platform overall. And we’re sort of leaning into that pretty fast. And I think it will serve us well going forward because that is going to be a core need, whether you’re an independent advisor or whether you’re a company.
Craig: Hey, don’t jump ahead. Could be a lot of questions here.
Kabir: You’re asking all kinds of exciting questions or getting all that I made about it.
Will LPL Develop a Merrill Edge Product?
Craig: That’s not it. That’s my job. All right. So rolling back a little bit, talking about your experience back at Bank of America Merrill Lynch. So you managed the integration of the Bank of America direct platform and Merrill Lynch’s financial advisory platform into what became the very successful Merrill Edge product, which is now a top five player in the on-line brokerage space. So with that experience, do you have any plans for LPL to develop a similar on-line small account solution?
Kabir: Yeah. And we actually have a couple of small account type solutions. Some, we’ve got out there somewhere working on. And I will sort of walk through a little bit of the philosophy and then we can talk about some of the specifics, which is one of the areas that we’re quite grounded in and we’ve heard a lot is that people still have a need for advice at some point of time. I mean, there’s obviously some people who use robo-advisors, etc, but even at Merrill Lynch when we launched Merrill Edge and investing, what we found is that it made sense to have the self-directed platform. It made sense to have a quality guided portfolio, which was the robo solution, but then also overlaying an advisor on top of that, in sort of like twice a review, is that kind of thing in your payload lecture. And so, the philosophy here in LPL has been quite similar because that’s what we found in the past, right? We’ve got a couple of smaller account solutions, like optimum market portfolios, which is like a mutual fund rap program. It says low minimum of 1K. We’ve got guided wealth portfolios, which is a models-based experience that advisors can use to grow relationships with small accounts. So we’ve got those couple of solutions, and we’re finding they’re well received both by clients and advisors because… even with end clients, what we found is people want advisors. For the most part, people want advisors involved in the new account opening process. And there’s questions sometimes that need to be navigated. There’s an element of confidence people want just as they’re entering that relationship and establishing accounts. And so, we found these couple of solutions that I talked about are actually quite interesting to end clients, but importantly to advisors also, who have those kinds of clients. So, that’s, you know, I would say I’d compare it to, let’s say, what we had in Merrill, the one difference, of course, is, you know, one part of Merrill Edge is the only self-directed platform and we’re in a different business over here. But the other part of Merrill Edge, as I mentioned, was this advice-like type of program. And that’s very much where we are finding that there’s a sweet spot with smaller guns. So, no to the purely self-directed.
Craig: directed yes to advice, lights, advisor overlay, some might get me advisor involved somehow.
Kabir: Exactly, yeah. And that we’re finding actually satisfies the net. That by the way is not because we found it a good idea to launch it, we just guided by what clients wanted. Both advisors and their clients. I mean, that’s what we heard loud and careful.
When Does LPL Build vs Buy?
Craig: Well, it makes a lot of sense. So onto the next question. So LPL has developed as invested heavily in developing your own software tools and specific areas such as UMA sleeve management and other areas. How do you decide when to build versus bringing in an external vendor?
Kabir: Yeah, it’s an interesting one, right? Especially in LPL because we as you know, one of the core elements of our value proposition is flexibility. So we’re trying to make sure you as an advisor have a platform to work on that is. essentially meeting you, where trying to meet you, where you are in whatever part of your journey you might be. I will say with all that said, the decisions are always going to be grounded honestly in kind of like the question I just answered, which is what are we hearing from our advisors and clients, what are we actually solving for in their interest and then, you know, what is, what is sort of the right solution and commercial solution that fits those needs. And you know depending on the solution that leads you in different places right I mean use if you take the example you took like you may, or if you take something like client works which is our workstation. Those are called differentiators for us right there they’re core to our offerings so those are kinds of things where you’re typically going to look to build yourself because they’re essentially the hubs around which you’re offering, you know, rest. With that said, you know with most capabilities we’re going to look at some of the classic factors right cost speed the market security. When you overlay all those on top of all, what are we solving for and what needs to try and needs best, you’ll typically end up with, depending on the space, with some solutions where we will decide to build ourselves, especially if we want flexibility to continue extending differentiation. There we find quite often that investing in us makes a bit different. You can keep evolving those platforms. And then there are places where you’ve got players who are focused to take some of the simpler examples like CRM or wealth planning, right? You’ve got people who are in that space, you’ve got advisors who use those tools. And in LPL, I think it’s one of many huge advantages is we can offer those tools to our advisors, right? Which is what we do right now. And so, as you probably expected, it’s not a sort of straightforward answer, but it’s one that I do find is kind of an interesting question every time you look to answer it here in LPL, because it’s not a lot down and buy it, right? The whole idea as I start by saying is you’re trying to make sure you have maximum choice. Yeah, that’s the difference between working in a Merrill Lynch where their advisors or employees versus working in an LPL where they are all independent and you’ve got them convinced them to use these products. And I think what you’re always trying to balance at some level, which we’re able to do is you’re trying not to have like a proliferation of tools either, right? But quite often, and I think advisors have welcomed this when we’ve worked with them. There’s an element of giving them the capabilities they need or having them use what they’re already using, but then also overlaying that with services around advice to them, right around, okay, what is the best way to use our tech stack? And how could you actually benefit from using capabilities or tools? that you might not have thought of in the past. And we’re finding, it sort of goes back to that core mission of enabling our advisors and our clients’ success, because if you approach it like that, then it becomes very much a conversation around, all right, let’s tell you the best ways that you might be able to succeed and use our platform, as opposed to, well, here are the three choices and you take it or leave it.
The Dogma of Advisors
Craig: Sure, and you’ve mentioned a number of times, advisor success, and it’s something we stress a lot with our enterprise wealth clients is how do you facilitate advisor success without running, ragged what they’re, how they want to operate, help without sort of diluting their value added. You use the word dogma to describe how advisors run their business. So what are some of the ways you balance that out?
Kabir: So there’s part of it is our core platforms need to be strong, right? Like I talked about client works and the build-out so I doing in the wealth management space. The advisory platform, etc. So one, we’re trying to give them a platform which delivers on the coil and so what they want to do. Two, the flexibility is always going to be important, right, as I said, as in people will use certain wealth planning tools or certain CRMs and we are trying to make sure that they have the ability to use what they’re already on. But that we have the ability also to give them any level of integration into our ecosystem, which benefits them. So you might have your own third party CRM you might be using, but we do ensure that it’s integrated with our workstation that you’re going to be on so that you have a pretty seamless experience, right, just all workflows like that. There’s another piece then beyond just the capabilities, which is all right when you start getting into what are the other ways we can help you. It’s examples I mentioned tech stack consulting, right, how we advise them on their tech stack. We have a rapidly growing services business. So whether it’s planning services or bookkeeping or tax planning, I mean, if you need help or you need resources who need to do that for you, we will provide those as well. And then some of the interesting areas that we’re getting into are helping them manage their business. So, you know, we have something called practice hub, which gives you metrics around your practice. And we’re in the process of evolving it to helping you be able to set goals or to be able to look at benchmarks. So well beyond the capabilities you might use or even the services we might offer you, we’re also trying to give you ways that you can look at a trajectory of growth compared to your peers and others and then start thinking to, all right, how do I achieve that? I think that word is off to you is that phrase, which is, you know, enabling advice of success. But when you start getting deeper into it, it’s actually well beyond just giving people tools or capabilities. It’s much more around, all right, let’s approach this like it’s our business as well. And what all the. the things we would do by way of resources or capabilities or advice that we can give you that would help you grow. And it takes you and frankly it ends up taking you in a lot of interesting places, right, in terms of things that you start developing as a product group.
Craig: I remember the when I was at the LPL advisor conference, I was so impressed with the so the the middle of the room had all the LPL services around like the center of the of the of the of the trade floor. All the partners were wrapped around but in the center I was just amazed looking around at all the different services that LPL was offering as you mentioned helping advisors manage their business to practice hub all these different services like all these outsourced services. I was impressed with I think that’s a you guys started a trend and I’m hearing more broker dealers more IBDs also doing the same.
Kabir: It’s funny you mentioned that and for your listeners it’s a conference called focus right which has got to be the biggest event I’ve been to outside of NFL games. And it’s actually gratifying as an employee and especially for me being my first time because you walk around those booths and you talk to advisors who are watching the demos and then many of them will talk about how their businesses have grown and how there are small shops and over the last three, four years or whatever time period it might be, the kind of success they’ve enjoyed and the fact that they link their success to the platform and what they’ve got out of working with LPL is it’s already authentic, right? And so it’s, like I said, very gratifying to listen to that. And you’re right, I mean, we had over 80 booths over there and that’s not counting all our sponsor partners as well, just be fundamental to our business. And the booths were just, you know, always back with people just trying to understand what else is there that I can use for people with specific questions and doing directed to something that might be those. So it’s kind of a cool event.
Future Tech Acquisitions
Craig: Let’s switch gears back to technology. LPL has acquired some acquisitions of technology firms in the past. One was advisory world, a company that I have a long experience with working with them back in the 2000s. You integrated their proposal generation tool into the new kind of open process of client works and you also acquired place portfolio, portfolio, manufacturing, rebalancing software. Are there any other acquisition opportunities you can share? If you can’t share specific ones, I understand. But what kind of categories are you looking at exploring for acquisitions?
Kabir: Honestly, broadly, we have sort of a fairly evolved capability around just looking at companies that are coming up in this space. And as you can imagine, a lot of what we look at is guided by what’s called to our strategy. But when you’re in a business of providing flexibility and you’re in a business where we’ve got so many FinTech solutions, it gets the list of things you look at becomes pretty broad quite quickly. So as you probably expected, it’s going to be hard for me to get into specifics, but I think in broad categories as you can imagine, it’s the kind of areas that you would expect, right? How do we reduce the strategic areas we’re trying to look at is how do we reduce friction for our advisors? How do we continue to make the experience smarter and smarter by using analytics and intelligence on our platforms? And then, how do we continue digging into this whole concept of personalization? Whether it’s all the way from insights or as I mentioned, things like, how you can run your practice or even on the product side to tax management, there’s a ton of elements of personalization, the big word.
So we keep a lot of our focus is grounded by those sort of tenets. I will say the space, and you know this better than most people, the space is incredibly exciting. We meet people a lot, and we’re fortunate to be right in the center of it, in some sense, and I think we’re just finding a lot of interesting solutions out there. And I will say, a lot of what we look at is going to be guided by some of the things you called out on advisory world of plays, right? And aside from the fact that it needs to satisfy a core need of our clients, and you satisfy the requirements around security, speed to market, etc. One big part for us is we do need to be able to be confident of integrating those capabilities into our ecosystem. I mean, that’s essential, right? Because otherwise what you could end up with is a bunch of different things, but it’s not a great experience because it just feels a lot more fragmented. And that’s the exact opposite of what we’re trying to do. So I’m pretty thoughtful about what we go out and get. I mean, we don’t, I would say we’re inquisitive, but we don’t go around looking at buying every company we come across. It’s much more deliberate in terms of process and where it fits in the experience. We’re trying to deliver.
Craig: You mentioned confidence and integration. It’s something we’re pretty focused on. One of the reasons why we launched our Ezra Group wealth tech integration scores for firms such as yours, we’re looking around the market and didn’t know which ones integrated well, because it’s very opaque. We find across the across advisors or rather across vendors. Some vendors offer more information on the websites and many don’t. So it’s difficult to know how well you could integrate them. So hopefully the integration score will help you guys out when it comes to deciding which vendor you want to acquire.
Kabir: By the way, that’s a great idea. You don’t know especially when firms more evolved than ours who have legacy platforms. There are all kinds of things that come up. Either while you’re doing your due diligence and sometimes quite frankly, even later than that. And so I would imagine you’ll have a lot of data.
Craig: Yeah, we’ve had a couple of PE firms call us with that exact request. Because if they’re looking to come into the space, the first firm they want to buy is usually a hub, something that they can plug in other acquisitions into. So knowing what the integration score is, it helps them if they’re making decisions between two firms, not the only thing, but what they’re looking at two firms, they don’t know which one to buy. So maybe the integration score will help them decide that’s the one we want to work with.
Kabir: Yeah for sure. I mean, at some point, I’m going to dig into that with you.
ClientWorks Product Roadmap
Craig: We’ll take that offline. Great, so running out of time. I have a whole bunch more questions. ClientWorks, the LPL advisor platform now being for 21,000 advisors making it the most used IBD platform on the planet. Do you have any client works product roadmap updates that you can share?
Kabir: I mean, honestly, it’s a pretty long list just because of the kind of scale, as you mentioned, we’re supporting and it is our hub. But I’ll give folks, and you probably a few examples. One I mentioned the growing breadth of client segments and models that we support. RIA, it’s large teams, it’s even the employee model, etc, and then you run enterprises. One of the areas we are very focused on is how do you continue to make sure that your one hub can satisfy different needs. As I mentioned earlier, there’s a fair amount of crossover, but then of course, especially as you enter the enterprise space and we’re growing there fast, you start to uncover some pretty custom needs. And so that’s one broad area. I think the other piece is on that team. of integration, you’re going to continue seeing a lot of API integrations across different types of solutions, right? CRM, wealth planning, all those core capabilities that our advisors have. Because a lot of what we continue to be focused on and ClientWorks is the center of it is, how do we keep looking at the workflows that matter most to our advisors? And how do we keep giving them the experience that is most integrated and seamless across those workflows? And you might talk about a single workflow, but there are many different capabilities within it. So a lot of what we’re trying to do is make sure that that experience feels and comes across as integrated, easy to use, intuitive. So that’s another piece. I think another theme around the platform that you’ll see is just continued focus on design and experience. I feel like historically, and I say this a lot, it’s kind of been an underserved area in wealth management, right? At its core is a human relationship and I think a lot of platforms have assumed that that takes care of everything, but as even end clients use the platform more, as advisors try and do more on it, as we try and give them more capabilities, there’s going to be a real need and there already is to keep that experience simple and intuitive, otherwise the complexity starts to overtake you. There’s a lot underneath those areas I mentioned, but those are all big areas of focus for us around client walks and you’ll be seeing a lot as we go along.
Craig: Thank you for sharing that. When your last comment reminds me, I was talking, I went to a talk by Carl Richards last week at the Riskalyze Conference and he’s the sketch guy, he has a sketch that shows it’s hard to talk about this in a podcast, but it’s a straight line and it says simplicity. And then a big squiggle in the middle, it’s like a giant. It’s like a giant the yarn messed up. But then the kind of the other side, it says elegant simplicity.
Kabir: It seems like what you’re looking for here. For sure, for sure. And it cuts across platforms as in, I think historically, a lot of the consumer and investor-facing platforms have had that kind of focus. So people will spend a lot of time on the mobile app and the website and things like that. But the advisor-facing platforms and even the collaboration between advisors and investors are huge areas of opportunity for the kind of elegant simplicity you just talked about. I mean, there’s tons and tons of areas that you can actually. And if you approach it right, there’s massive upside in that.
Craig: I would agree. Talking about a different area, I’ve seen some stuff on LinkedIn and some news reports, person thinks about research. So there’s a lot of talking on the regular space about how to provide research, whether it’s equity research, think of research, two advisors and clients. Are you guys doing anything around that space you could share?
Kabir: I mean, we have been out there and will be a lot more research for us as an exciting space. And we’re kind of approached the strategy differently and finding it’s actually serving us quite well. Because for us, unlike many more established firms in that space, research for us is a way to support our advisors. So that they can help their end clients. I mean, that’s the mission when it comes down to it in terms of what we’re trying to do with research and what we’re trying to solve for as a capability. And so a lot of what we’re trying to do is grow the team, which is the part of what you’ve seen on LinkedIn, which is we want to be able to provide breadth and depth of coverage, right, for advisors to support their end clients and continue evolving the kind of content we’re putting out there, right? I mean, we feel good about that. And, you know, the quality, the ability to connect with the tool scale investment process, all that’s obviously core to any credible research offering. And then, you know, centralized model management, which is the teams continue to curate and manage models. So I think all those are basic parts of what we want to do and what anyone would do in research. The exciting piece for us though, is what we are trying to make sure it is accessible to 21,000 advisors and all their clients. What that starts to play into is not just the models and the production of content, but also how you distribute that using technology and how you get the word out there. It starts to become this interesting intersection of the core research capabilities and marketing and technology. And that is what our strategies found it on. And we’re part of the way there, there’s a lot more to do. But you know, we’re trying to do is make sure we have sophisticated ways of sharing the content and serving it up to advice that complement all the other things you would expect from a research offering. So you would be seeing a lot more of that. I am glad you’re noticing it on LinkedIn. That means things are working, but much more to go.
Artificial Intelligence at LPL
Craig: Thank you for sharing that. And last question I will squeeze one more in. We talked about trends or personalization. Are you guys working with anything with artificial intelligence, machine learning? If you are being shared how you’re building that into your platform or into your tools or into reporting or things to help advisors be more efficient?
Kabir: Yeah, we’re looking at a few different areas. And frankly, they’re pretty disparate areas because they range from, proof of concept we’re doing even in areas like a clear organization which is compliance, legal and regulatory looking at elements of natural language processing, they’re looking at inside engines that we can use to serve advisors. Again, the advisor is always the one we’re going to serve those two, right? They decide, but a lot of the goal there is how do we continue giving them reasons and opportunities to have the most meaningful conversations with their end clients. We’re looking at capabilities also around tax management, which is, you mentioned personalization, right? And so did I as you go deeper and deeper, you know, you do need an elemental sophistication in terms of the intelligence you’re using, right? It’s can’t be a manual process anymore. That’s just a flavor of things we’re looking at. I mean, there’s several areas that we are actually quite excited about. I think this space in general is going to be one where correctly applied, and a big part of correctly applied I will say is that if it’s solving for a real need, as opposed to being something. If it’s solving for a real need and it’s core to what advises the clients want, then I think we’re going to see the applications of intelligence in a number of different places. But I try to give you a sort of broad range of examples only because that sort of gives you an idea of the opportunities that exist in this space.
Craig: That was super helpful. I think everyone appreciated it and we’ve run out of time. Even so open with us, we appreciate it. Thanks so much for being on the program.
Kabir: No, thank you. That was great. It was as much fun as I expected.
Craig: Awesome. Thanks a lot.
