Come on in and sit back relax, you’re listening to Episode 166 of the WealthTech Today podcast. I’m your host, Craig Iskowitz, founder of Ezra Group Consulting and this podcast features interviews, news and analysis on the trends and best practices all around Wealth Management Technology.
This episode is part of our ongoing series called fintechs expanding into new clients segments where we talk to FinTech executives about the journey they went through when they decided to add a new client segment. What were the factors behind the decision? How did it work out? Most importantly, what went right and what went wrong? And how would they change things if they could do it all over again?
We chose this topic because at Ezra Group, we work with a lot of FinTech firms. We help them not only expand into new client segments, but also better understand their competition, the gaps in their products the size of their markets, and the trends that will impact their businesses.
Before we get into the interview, if you are listening now you’re an executive at a broker dealer, an asset manager or an enterprise RIA you should run not walk to a website, EzraGroupllc.com and fill out the Contact Us form on the homepage to meet with us about your technology platform issues. Our experienced team can assist with software vendor evaluations systems integrations, improving operational efficiency, software implementations and a whole lot more. You can take advantage of our free initial consultation offer by going to EzraGroupllc.com.
I’m excited to speak to today’s guest, Robert Sofia from Snappy Kraken. Robert is co founder of Snappy Kraken which he founded six years ago. Before that he was co founder and CEO of another firm called Platinum Advisor Strategies. He did that also consulting for six years and then sold that to FMG, and before that, he was VP at a Florida RIA called Fross & Fross.
As of 2022 Snappy Kraken serves over 6000 advisors 200 enterprises with more than 6 million individual investors. Snappy Kraken is a five time honoree of the Inc 500/5000 list which recognizes the fastest growing companies in America. Back in 2016hen they first started, they were a winner of the XYPN fintech competition, which I just helped moderate a couple weeks ago back in Denver is a great competition with new and up and coming FinTech vendors.
Snappy Kraken is also winner of the 2018 Scratchworks FinTech accelerator. They’ve been awarded numerous years as the best place to work in FinTech as the best overall content marketing company, and they’ve won many many wealth management industry awards. Also, you should follow Robert on Twitter, @RobertSofia. He writes about marketing and branding, entrepreneurship and just general things about life. And before we get started, quick housekeeping note please subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts so you don’t miss an episode. Now, let’s kick this thing off.
- Moving into the enterprise software space
- The biggest mistake
- Competitive Analysis
- Improving advisor adoption rates
Craig: I’m excited to introduce my next guest on the program. It is Robert Sofia, co founder and CEO of Snappy Kraken. Robert, welcome to the program.
Robert: Thank you, Craig. I’m happy to be here.
Craig: I’m happy you’re here. Where are you calling in from?
Robert: I am in the beautiful Appalachian Mountains in north Georgia right on the border of North Carolina. The Appalachian Trail is about a half a mile behind my house and I’m looking out the window at some of the most gorgeous fall colors I’ve ever seen.
Craig: That is fantastic. No, you just moved there during COVID from Florida, right?
Robert: I did. That’s right. Yeah, big lifestyle change. But now I like to consider myself a bougie farmer, Craig, I grew my own vegetables this summer. Got some grape vines going in and having fun with it up here. I love it.
Craig: I’m jealous because I had a house for 23 years and we always had a big garden out back. We just sold it. Got an apartment. So it’s very different and it’s New Jersey. So I don’t see anything except gray. But that’s what New Jersey is all about. Cool. So thanks for being on the program. Really appreciate it. We’re talking about changing client segments. That’s the topic for this month, firms that have moved into different client segments and all the lessons learned and we’ll appreciate you sharing your experience with other hopefully other founders who are on the call or other other firms that are looking to do similar things. But before we start, can you give us a 30-second elevator pitch for Snappy Kraken?
Robert: Yeah, Snappy Kraken is a platform that is designed to help advisors build stronger relationships with prospects and clients. Most people think of us as a marketing platform, but we think of ourselves as a relationship platform. And so we use text messaging email video, websites that are designed more around the relationship component of things to help advisors build credibility, get in front of people they want and ultimately maintain long term relationships with people who also refer them a lot of business.
Moving into the Enterprise Space
Craig: Thank you for that. If you want more information you can go to SnappyKraken.com to find out more about the company in their offerings. Let’s jump right in. So talking about where you guys started, you started in the raa space and were very successful there. What made you want to move into the enterprise space?
Robert: It happened organically, very much bottoms up. So we never set out to be enterprise software. We actually sent out to serve individual advisors, but what happened is that we would have a small group of advisors who would start to be vocal about the success they were having with our program. And they wouldn’t be inside of a network could be a broker dealer or a TAMP or larger RIA or insurance marketing organization or whatever organization they were affiliated with even coaching programs. And they say wow, you know, you guys are getting all these results. What are you using and they tell us Snappy Kraken, and then all of a sudden the enterprise would call us and say, Hey, we’ve got 17 of our advisors that use you and they love it. So maybe we ought to talk about an enterprise contract. And that happened organically. We went from you know, 30 licensed contracts to 100 licensed contracts to 500 licensed contracts and right now I’m literally in the midst of negotiating a 4000 license contract. So it just it happened and it wasn’t that we wanted to. It’s just that’s what the nature of the advisory business is right? You’ve got all these different distribution channels, and they’re all trying to provide value for financial advisors. And so we ended up in this business.
Craig: That’s a common story. A lot of people tend to just wind up and things as they move and as they grow, as advisors move as the product gains momentum and gets well known in the marketplace, you start to get calls which is terrific. So now that you were looking at moving into the advisor space, you kind of made that decision. What was the next step? Well, how did you plan your move?
Robert: Yeah, so first of all, I’m sure your listeners know this. And I know you know this, but there is no scenario where a retail pricing model works for an enterprise. It’s just there’s always the group discounting factor that the sheer volume of it I mean, for example, trying to get an LPL to buy 17,000 licenses at our street price will never happen. And so you have to get your pricing right for both retail and enterprises. And that was the first thing like what is our pricing model going to be if we’re gonna do this because people are coming to us and say we want to buy this many and we had to figure that out. Even before we got into the product roadmap piece. And then that’s the next thing that happens because you close your first enterprise. And it’s a huge celebration. And then you go, Oh, wow, wait a second. They have a lot of unique needs. And they’re coming to us with all these ideas. They want to influence our roadmap now and they have features that they want and it looks a lot different when one advisor is paying you 300 bucks a month ask for a feature than when an enterprise is paying you $100,000 A month ask for a feature. And so now you have to have product development support for that and you can’t derail your entire roadmap.
Robert: So we started ramping up engineering resources and then you say okay, well, I want we got this enterprise going great. But what we should go out and get 10 more this year, how are we gonna do that? And then you need enterprise sellers, because the way you sell to an individual financial advisory business is different than how you sell into the C suite and not everyone is prepared to sell into the C suite. It’s a very different level of conversation. And so then we had to build up a team. And, and oh, by the way, you also have to provide them better service. So what about account managers and relationship managers for these enterprises?
Robert: You asked the question, how do we plan it? I don’t say that we really planned it. Like we should have, Craig, we actually just adapted to it. And we did that by A) adapting our pricing, B) adapting our sales strategy, C) adapting our engineering process, and D) adapting our enterprise engagement and support processes. And all that happened over the period of the last few years.
Robert: As we started to really get traction in this area, because now we have like 200+ approved firms and several white labeled instances today it was just announced, even technology providers now we have Orion and red tail are now you know white labeling Snappy Kraken and integrating a deeply with their technology and deploying it to 115,000 users. So I mean that this is all stuff that we had to prepare for. And so the process of preparing for it was very much a crawl walk, run type of process.
Craig: Congratulations on the Orion news.
Robert: Yeah. Thank you. Thanks. And to your question, we would have never been able to get this account if we hadn’t started down this path years ago and prepared one step at a time and I think that’s a really big lesson for me. The best laid plans as an entrepreneur, you come into things and you have a playbook on how you’re going to do things. And the market has its own ideas for what it needs from you and you’ve got to be willing to adapt to those ideas and evolve your product and your your infrastructure and your processes to support what the market demands.
Craig: Exactly, it’s it’s a given taken and as you mentioned, we hear a lot of this as well with firms we work with. And pricing model is one of the early issues they have to work with and understanding. That retail pricing model doesn’t work. And what is an enterprise pricing model? What are the different options like we’ve built out many pricing models on the enterprise side, and there’s a number of different ways you can do it. Some firms can charge basis points, most tech firms can’t. But least one mistake we see a lot of firms doing is they have an all in one pricing model which they’ve had forever. And now we’re there, there. We come to the city, you will not break us apart. You can you’ve got different modules here you can sell separately, and you can rather than selling it as an all in one. So did you have that same issue and how did you deal with that?
Robert: Oh yeah, and there’s resistance to that, you know, you you don’t want to change what’s been working and it’s a lot of work you got to it means new marketing materials and new sales strategy and, and potentially new product strategy. And so, you know, trying to do all of that can be overwhelming, especially if you’re in a growth phase of your business and you know, you don’t have all the resources maybe to do all those things. So for us, it started out with, you know, we saw the potential, and we knew what we wanted to do like to your point hey, let’s modularize this and let’s take this piece and sell it separately at a lower cost and, but that wasn’t something we could really do because we didn’t have the engineering resources.
Robert: So we had no choice initially, but to sell what we had it’s like the old fruit truck you know, it’s full of apples. Somebody comes by for peaches. You don’t have peaches. You got apples, you gotta sell what’s on the truck. We we couldn’t modularize our product that easily. And so actually doing that became like a two year process. And in the meantime, what did we do? We said, well, if we don’t have peaches, but they want to buy apples, we better just discount the apples. And that’s what we did. So we kept selling the exact same product is deeply discounted, and then making sure our economies of scale worked out, obviously.
Robert: But then, over time, we have actually we’ve done a few things we’ve we’ve split up our product into different components and added new products. But we intentionally built them separately instead of bundling them in from the get go so that we could have that approach like hey, you know it most people want our core product that’s the piece they negotiate for. And those other things become add ons and by having them separate and allowed us to negotiate different types of deals for different types of organizations. But there was it was definitely a process.
Craig: That’s something we work with our clients on is understanding that part of the value is having enough products to sell and having enough different components breaking into components makes clients feel like they’re it’s being customized for them and that they’re just paying for what they need rather than everything and but it also works better for you because most firms can raise the prices of the modules a little more. That way you say well, you if you buy all these we’ll give you a discount. If you buy just one you’re going to pay a little more and everyone kind of understands how that works.
Robert: That’s right. Yes. And that’s what we’ve moved to. It’s not actually evident on our website now. We acquired Advisor Websites back in April. And so now we’ve got a whole new product and packaging, bundling strategy with the websites and branding component of things. And so all of that will be coming out and that that new model you sort of mentioned there where like as you add products, everything goes down in price, and that’s something that’ll be coming soon. But we’ve already done that for enterprises.
The Biggest Mistake
Craig: Yeah, awesome. That’s great news. Oh by the way, congratulations on Advisor Websites haven’t really talked to you since then. But that was a great move. So we’re talking back to enterprise. So pricing model, product roadmap, engineering, new marketing materials, new sales, expanding your service. So all these things had to happen. What were some mistakes that you made, that we if you were talking to a roomful of other founders who are then looking to move to another market? What were some of the things that you mistakes you made and what were those lessons you learned?
Robert: Okay, first of all, I didn’t do enough competitive research early on. So I was going in naive about where my competitors were coming in. And I was losing a lot of at bats, because our pricing was just too high. And I was like, Oh, well, let’s just give them 20% off and come to find out what competitors are like 80% off and, you know, I didn’t do enough to understand that and then make sure the unit economics worked out and factor in things like my customer acquisition costs going down, which allows me to price differently and in all these things that I just, I was winging it in the beginning, just to be honest, and I would say mistake number one, don’t wing it. If you get the opportunity. Go out, do some real competitive research, which we did later to understand the gaps in our competitors products, our specific strengths so we can play to those our competitors pricing, and then we could really compete.
Robert: So that was a big mistake. It costs us some business, but we recovered from it. I could have done better if I’d known upfront that that was a little naive of me. Another big mistake I think we made was assuming that our price would be enough for them. Like hey, we gave you a great product. We gave you great pricing. So what more do you want from us? And that’s not really the case. They are a big enterprise spending a lot of money with you they they are going to want some different level of attention and and care and influence over the roadmap and product development. And so putting a process in place to go back to our partners and sit down at the table with them at least once a year and say how’s the partnership and treating it like a partnership. I mean, it’s not just a customer relationship. It’s if you’re a big part of their technology stack, and they’re serving hundreds or 1000s of advisors like it is a partnership. It’s a big resource allocation for them.
Robert: So how is it working? What do you like? What are you hearing from the advisors? What are the pain points, and then getting those things addressed? And letting them know you’re addressing those things is huge. And we we definitely learned the hard way when some of our partners came back and they were like, Hey, do you really care about us or not? And we just say, Yeah, we do, I promise. And then I’m flying in to sit down with them and show them how much I care and make adjustments.
Robert: And then I think the third thing, Craig, is probably the biggest and that is if you don’t like them during the sales process, you’re not going to like them as a customer. And don’t be afraid to say no, you know, there’s a big enterprise that we took out a few years ago and their name is pretty well known very reputable in the space, but absolutely terrible to work with. And I in the sales process, I could tell like they’re disorganized. They’re not internally aligned. They have unrealistic expectations. And the whole time I was like, so focused on getting that logo in my portfolio and making the PR announcement that I wasn’t really thinking about what it was going to dump on my people.
Robert: And then my team hated working with them. I mean, every time their name would cover they come on the calendar was like Oh, not them again. Not them again. Oh my goodness. We bent over backwards to service them. We spent so much money servicing them and they were never happy and then soon as the contract was over, they left anyway. And you know what, when they left, we said thank goodness. So in hindsight, like all I did was waste time and money and burn my people, for a customer so, man, like choose your customers wisely, especially big accounts because they’re going to strong arm you, you better make sure that there’s somebody like
Craig: there was an old saying we used to, we’d have the same you know, 20 years ago before when when the market was a lot different than the types of clients we work with, which was a lot different and this isn’t picking on Merrill Lynch but just at the time. I always use Merrill Lynch as an example because we’ve just heard so many issues. Was that working with a small company and they it’s a good news, bad news for the small companies. The founder comes in good news, bad news. Good news. We just got Merrill Lynch’s a client. Bad news, we just got Merrill Lynch’s a client right? So basically, now they own you. They’re gonna tell you what to do with they’re gonna drive your product roadmap the way they want things run, which works great for Merrill Lynch and they’re very successful but may not work for the other clients you think you might be selling to? And you may not have the resources to support your other clients, when they all get sucked in you can replace Merrill Lynch with any broker, dealer, asset manager, any large enterprise firm, that is the biggest customer you’ve ever had. or it’s also called tier one firm. So the tier what you get of tier one client, these are these really big clients, no matter who they are. They’re going if you’re not prepared to support them, and your organization is prepared to handle them. It can really tank your business.
Robert: Absolutely can and we have been fortunate not to be tainted by those. We’ve definitely won some of those. But that’s because we put in the blood sweat and tears. And we were resilient as a company. But it wasn’t easy. And you better make sure you you resource for those properly. That’s for sure.
Craig: Thank you for the three mistakes and I didn’t have to draw them out of you.
Robert: So one thing I don’t have a problem with usually Craig, is talking good news, bad news. I can talk.
Craig: Well, that’s why I have you on the program. Treat your clients like partners, and don’t be afraid to say no to a prospect. So going going back to told winging it. You mentioned doing more competitive research. And then you also talked about customers customer acquisition costs going down. So can you explain more about why that is and how it affects your pricing and how you you dealt with that?
Robert: Yeah, you want me to talk about CAC or talk about research.
Craig: Whichever one he wants to talk about, let’s talk about research first.
Robert: I think of those things as two very distinct and different topics. The research is hard because you what I did initially, I’m telling myself here, Craig. I had my salespeople Secret Shop my competition. But you don’t get the level of detail that you really need from a research perspective. You end up with just a bunch of information, and it’s not really organized in a way that’s extremely helpful. And so that was like our first swipe at and we’re like, oh, they have this and we have that and this is it. And then you know, see your salespeople are not objective at all. So they pretty much just bring you all the dirt they think you want to hear and it’s just all the compliments on your product that they think you want to hear. And that’s not the way to do research. That was another There you go. Another lesson by the way I can go all day on the stuff I’ve done wrong, Craig.
Craig: We can expand will expand to other podcasts.
Robert: Yeah, exactly. Robert, the mistake guy. The the real thing that helped us was doing proper research and so we hire extra extra hired a research firm who brought in a whole team. They, they analyze their competition. They went deep. I mean, they spent hundreds of hours and on the Webinars and in the meetings and doing screenshots and doing a proper, quantifiable research study on all the key areas of our business versus our competitors creating a Gantt chart that really showed like where the overlaps were and where the gaps were in our product. Anyway, good good for my recommend that you might have heard of them, Ezra Group.
Craig: I have heard of them.
Robert: But it was it was really helpful. And you know, honestly, that study that we had you do back in? Was it early to mid 2020, early to mid 2020. I mean, it led to why we acquired advisor webstore it was 2021. And it was a big part of why we acquired Advisor Websites in 2022. There’s a big gap in our product around websites and all of our competitors were offering websites and they were all in one and we weren’t and that was costing us in business. And so anyway, that study really helped us figure out how to position our product and how to price our product and how to evolve our roadmap to be more competitive.
Craig: Excellent. And if I can pat myself on the back, we did a great job. I’m happy it was it was it worked out well for you. That’s our goal is to make our clients extraordinarily happy and successful. Like if you just we just give you a bunch of documents and you don’t actually become successful from it, then it’s always a waste of money.
Robert: Yeah, and look, it’s not cheap, right. I mean, a study like that does cost a lot of money and if if we had to go back and do it again, would I do it? Absolutely. I probably will do another one in the future. I mean, what did I learn? Well, that investment 100x maybe more for our business because of the size of the enterprise contracts that we’ve been able to win by leveraging that information. So it’s, it’s been a great investment.
Craig: Excellent. I’m very glad to hear that. Alright, so research we’ve got let’s move on to acquisition costs. We talked about client acquisition costs, and how they changed during this whole process of moving to the enterprise space.
Robert: Yeah, so that’s the really powerful thing about enterprise business in my opinion. Is that the unit economics of it can be extraordinary and superior to individual advisors and the two main areas for us were enterprise businesses proved to be very fruitful, are in CAC, customer acquisition cost, and in retention, so net revenue retention, NRR, because the enterprise business if you think about versus retail, if I want to acquire an individual advisor, I’ve got to go out and I’ve got to market my product to get that advisors attention to get them into the pipeline to close them. And I have a funnel that goes from like the awareness stage all the way down to the decision stage. And I know my ratio is all the way down.
Robert: When I look at what I have to spend exhibit at conferences and to run online ads and to build a marketing team that can nurture all those advisor relationships we’ve set up. My customer acquisition cost is pretty high because of how expensive it is to market to hundreds of 1000s of advisors. But with an enterprise I only have to market to one to potentially get 1000s of advisors. The big difference see, I can call a CMO or request an introduction to the CMO or CEO at enterprise. And that introduction that starts that whole dialogue really cost almost nothing but leads to 100 licenses, 1000 licenses, whatever the case might be, in fact, our last three enterprise contracts. The big ones came from introductions.
Robert: So my CAC basically goes to zero my customer acquisition cost is a phone call. And then the it’s purely in revenue, and I don’t want to share all my numbers just because it’s something that’s confidential, but I can tell you like my customer payback for a retail customer, what I spend to get them versus what I make on them on average, you know, it’s always paid back within about three quarters of a year.
Robert: But an Enterprise Client can take, we’re talking about like, millions of dollars in contract value is zero acquisition costs. That’s number one. That’s huge. Number two is the retention profile. I mean, you sign a three year contract, they’re not going anywhere. Individual Advisors, a lot of them they come in they’re fickle, like when they come in, we say listen, this is a program. You have to work it you have to use it, it will take time, you’ve got to invest at least an hour a month, you got to invest that hour, and then you got to be patient. It’s gonna take 3, 6, 12 months before you start to really see an ROI and you got to be consistent with it. They come in, they log in, they get overwhelmed. They don’t do it three months later, like I don’t have time to use it and they cancel. Like hold on. You knew you needed this. You signed up for it and now you’re not using it you’re gonna cancel it just like a gym membership. That doesn’t happen within Enterprise, because it’s too big of a commitment and they stick so those two things combined really make enterprise business valuable for for a company at our stage.
Craig: I think the bigger commitment is the is the big issue is big driver there that the golden through all that work. You have to go through a lot of work and one thing but we we work with your team on is explaining how much of work is going to take to go through these processes what you guys found out because and the larger the firm you get, the more hurdles you have to go through and more groups whether their compliance, their tech teams, their cybersecurity, their procurement, their legal, all these different reviews, you’ll wind up having to hire people just to do all that work.
Robert: You do. Yep, it is. And we actually we did have to add this. Another thing we had to add was data security and compliance infrastructure. But the truth is, because you have to do all that work. They also have to do all that work, which means the commitment level is higher. A lot of advisors like swipe a credit card and run but an enterprise doesn’t do that which means it’s a longer fuse, but it’s a lot bigger commitment and that you know, it offsets the work required to get it done.
Improving Advisor Adoption Rates
Craig: Yeah, the onboarding well, once they’ve onboard you and they spent you know six months then they want to make they want to see value. Let’s get this using although any tips for improving advisor adoption even though you’ve gotten into the the broker dealer or larger enterprise firm, the advisor still if they want to use it, so any tips around those adoption rates?
Robert: I mean, without adoption, you’ve got nothing. That’s the whole name of our game. We got to get advisors to us and that if we don’t have an advisor adoption doesn’t work for individual advisors or enterprises that support advisors. And that’s been another thing it’s been a huge learning curve. We started Snappy Kraken as marketers, and we’re like, this is gonna save so much time and it does if you’re a marketer, but if you don’t do marketing, it just you cost you time.
Robert: So that’s where it’s where it all starts is mindset. Like you have to tell the advisors, this is what you want out of it. This is what it’s going to take. Do you understand that? Like, you have to do this work. And we actually have a graphic. We show people before they buy, and it’s like the roller coaster of motion. You’re gonna go through like right here, you’re like, Yeah, I’m ready to go. Okay, and two weeks from now after you’re you’re finishing configuring everything and like you’re really ready to go, you’re gonna be like, Oh, this is harder than I expected. And then you’re gonna push it up the hill, and it’s gonna be okay, this has taken me a lot and then all of a sudden, you’re gonna be like, on top again, like, wow, I’m getting results I never expected right, like you got to go through this.
Robert: So, education. Number one, be clear, don’t over promise. If anything under promise, and then get them in and then number to hold their hand. Like this is not an industry where everybody expects to do everything themselves. Advisors are very accustomed to being pandered to by the companies. They work with. And so interestingly, a lot of investors that want to snap a crack and they weren’t interested because of the service level that we have to provide. They’re like, No, it’s not really, it’s to service heavy, like well, you know what, that’s the industry bread you got to serve.
Robert: So we have a team, we call it you know, the customer experience team and their job is to reach out and engage our advisors, hold their hand, get them on webinars, do proactive outreach. We have extensive customer health scoring data, they’re not logging in, if they’re not launching content. We know and we reach out and we move them along and and then like that’s, that’s part of it. The other the other big thing is you got to celebrate the wins. Like we’re in the marketing business, but it applies anywhere. But I’ll just use marketing because that’s what I’m focused on. What motivates you to keep marketing results? So if they’re getting opt ins if they’re getting results, then we got to draw their attention to those. We’ve got to say, hey, congratulations, you got another lead, and what have you done with it? And then we do case studies on our advisors who are really successful, and we publish those case studies and we circulate those case studies.
Robert: We’re inside of a network that has 10% penetration, and we know there’s 90% more to gain. We look at the 10% we say who’s the most successful we just in case studies on that we circulate those case studies with the whole network. Here are your peers, here’s what they’re doing. You can be doing this too, and that, you know, amplifies our adoption by the rest of the advisors. And it’s a never ending process, like anything. I mean, I go back to the fitness analogy. People they want to see results that’s motivating. They’d have somebody to hold their hand. Call them Are you coming to the gym that’s motivating. It’s sort of the same with software?
Craig: Yeah, it’s something we talk to a lot of firms about. And one of the one of the terms I use is you need to consider internal marketing, just as the same as external marketing. So you need to market to your advisors, the good things you’re doing, as we see adoption rate problems everywhere, everyone’s got problems and then not just marketing, software, CRM, financial planning, whatever the software might be, there’s always adoption issues. Because in part of is they don’t really explain to the advisors what this will do for you and how it’s going to help you. And we see that there’s a lot of thirds, a third of the I’ll be excited, because they’re the new adopters. approximately a third will be on the fence. You got to work on them a turtle hate it. Because they just always do. So you got to work on the second third first, because of the easiest ones a low hanging fruit, then you really need to focus on the next step because they’re not going to want to use whatever tool it is if it’s great, and you got to come up with new ways to explain to them whether it was a case study, or it’s just a more explaining is more videos, it’s more training. There’s always different people that approach these software adoption in different ways.
Robert: That’s right. Yeah. Good advice. Great. People should listen to you.
Craig: You would think after all this time they would. And all this time has gone by and we’re out of time. So Robert, thank you so very much for being here and sharing all this wisdom. I hope everyone who is listening has been taking copious notes, because this is super helpful. This is advice that cost millions of dollars to get and you’re giving away for free here on this podcast.
Robert: Maybe I’ll charge next time.
Craig: You could. We’ll see if we can work with that model. Robert, thank you so much for being here. Everyone’s listening. Please go to SnappyKraken.com For more information and Robert hope to talk to you real soon.
Robert: Likewise, appreciate the time Craig.